Sunday, July 5, 2009

Morality can't be a ground to deprive fundamental rights: HC



The Delhi High Court has ruled a person cannot be deprived of his fundamental rights because of public disapproval of his acts on moral grounds and constitutional morality must dominate over public morality.


Don't really know how this is going to play out, eventually - in the bigger scheme of things, but this is exactly what I have been advocating for a very long time.

Just because a majority believes that something is immoral doesn't necessarily mean that EVERYONE has to subscribe to the same view. One man's witch is another man's fairy.

This is pretty much the tone for most of my posts on the blog.

There is a difference between illegal and immoral. And that difference seems to have been forgotten by most individuals/groups/institutions.

Moral or immoral - in my view, is more of a personal decision. There are some ideas/views/practices that might be popularly viewed as immoral, but it simply can not be considered as binding to absolutely everyone.

Murder/Smuggling .... the likes - are illegal activities.

(All relevant factors considered, of course) Multiple sex partners, drugs, drinking, smoking, gambling, pre-marital sex, prostitution etc. might be considered immoral by most. But that doesn't mean that these activities should be made illegal. Remember, there are people who believe that playing the stock markets is immoral (don't raise your eyebrows - I personally know one - my grandmother). There are people who think giving or receiving interest - is immoral

As open minded as I am, even I frown upon prostitution. Does that mean that it would be right to demand for the activity to be made illegal?

Adultery should be illegal, but if someone has sex with multiple partners with consent of all parties involved, I don't see how or why this should be illegal. People do have orgies, you know. It's not like it doesn't happen or it's always a case of date rape.

Swapping/Swinging is a way of life for many individuals. Immoral - perhaps to you, but definitely not to them.

You don't like it - FINE. But is that reason enough for it to be illegal? You don't like it - you don't do it. The other person gets off on it, how the hell is that YOUR PROBLEM!

Exactly the same argument when it comes to same sex relationships. Look, some people like fish, some like chicken. It's a matter of choice and nothing else.

There are people who believe (strongly) that homosexuality is a psychological disorder. We are all free to believe what we want. It's called having a CHOICE. You chose to believe it's a disorder. For someone else - it's just a way of life. It's how s/he wishes to live.

We are screwed over by not being able to choose our relatives. Similarly, there are a lot of things for which we don't have a choice and we have to put up with it. But there are some things for which we DO have a choice.

A smoker can't convert a non-smoker into a smoker. It's a matter of choice.

Same way - if you don't drink - irrespective of how cheap a bottle of booze gets - you won't drink.

If you are straight, it doesn't matter how many gay couples walk around the city - you will remain straight.

Dikhaawon pe mat jaao... apni akal ladaao.

6 Opinions:

Agnel said...

If you are straight, it doesn't matter how many gay couples walk around the city - you will remain straight.

Now, the reasons why ppl are against this are
1. This is against nature(My friend's point)
2. We don't want out little kids to get influenced cos these days, it isn't about the feelings, but more of joining an "elite" group of ppl. It is true, some girls think it is "cool" to be lesbian.

A smoker can't convert a non-smoker into a smoker. It's a matter of choice.

I'm sorry mate, smokers sometimes do find ways to influence their friends into smoking. Same goes with drinks.

Rest of the post was just stunning! One can't explain this better!

Hats off dude! :)

L o r d R a j said...

Hey Agnel. I am impressed by the way you think. (I had to put this up in response to the comment you left on the other post... )

Now Against NATURE. Sure, mother nature had a one on one discussion with your friend about gay rights.

Sorry about that jab. It's 5:25 in the morning and I am waiting for my coffee. :D

Lots of things might be considered against nature. If we were to think in those terms.

Here is a bit from one of of my older posts - -

a new kidney .. perhaps a treatment for cancer.. leukemia. Perhaps an effective cure for diabetes or Parkinson's..

Why does one take any medicines at all, why bother with any surgery at all?? why??
Why interfere with nature?
Why look for organ donors?
Why use vaccines for polio n stuff??
Why use a condom or other contraceptives n mess with nature??
Why try to enrich the soil?
Why develop (or try to develop) HYV (high yieldin varieties) of crops?

My point being - the argument - it's against nature if applied across the board, would make it extremely difficult for many of us to continue living. It's hardly a valid argument.

"Elite". Now here is a very interesting point. Why does one think this is "cool" / "Elite" ?

This is how it works - go tell a kid that he shouldn't go to so and so room, or so and so place or meet so and so person. You do know what happens - don't you?

You have now made that mind curious about that particular person/thing/place/room.

If you treat the concept of homosexuality as something extraordinary - there is a very good chance that it will entice the curiosity in a young impressionable mind. Albeit short lived.

If someone were to say ' by watching Tom & Jerry cartoons, kids might conclude that banging someone on the head with a frying pan is cool' would it be an appropriate response? Asking for a ban on Tom & Jerry?!

I am sure you get my point.

Smokers influencing people to smoke and the same goes for drinking

You just might have a very valid point over there. I would love to dispute it with the same conviction as I dispute other things but.. I can't seem to.(psst, right now, I am blaming it on me not having my morning coffee ;) )

Let me try anyways:

Err.. well I am not comfortable in completely agreeing with that statement.

Agnel - you don't smoke or drink, right? I am sure some of your friends do. If you can't influence them to quit, then how can they influence you to drink?

Yes, I do realise that not all of us think the same way, or have the same level of will power. But why is it so easy to bring up the 'influence' argument for a vice? Hardly ever heard anyone bringing it up for a virtue (that argument for another time, perhaps).

My view is - perhaps at some level the person DOES in fact want to drink. He might be using his friends habit as just an excuse. peene waalon ko peene ka bahaana chaahiye.

I just find it extremely difficult to comprehend that when it comes to such things - anyone can make another person do something against their own express will.

Ok.. time for me to get ready for work.

Enjoy your comments/views. Always a delight. Cheers, mate.
Take care and thanks again.

Agnel said...

Thanks for the compliment :D

Look at life for example. What is natural? Men are attracted towards women and vice-versa. Now that leads to procreation. The only chance of our survival. Now look at gays, can they even reproduce? Now you see what my friend hinted at? ;) Gays will just perish. Btw, I have absolutely nothing against them. I'm straight and I really don't understand how they feel. It isn't easy (almost impossible I can say) to empathize with all the feelings of human beings. If I don't understand something it doesn't mean I don't approve it. I'm well aware of human emotions. Infact I really feel for these gays.

About drinking/smoking
I tried my level best to make sure my friends don't get into such habits, but after a point of time, when some of them put "friendship" on the line, I decided to back off and give them space. That is all. My conscience is clear, I've given my 100%.

The reason why I said influenced is because, I don't want my children to be affected. Let's say, a child thinks it is hip to be a lesbian even thou the child doesn't even have feelings for a girl. Some fake it and when they realize they are straight, it will be too late. The child would have already made his/her friends THINK about him/her the wrong way(i.e gay).

I appreciate your comments as well buddy. Thanks again!

Have your coffee and have a great day at work.

Agnel :-)

L o r d R a j said...

Gays will just perish

Well most definitely we all will perish eventually. Not just gays.

The idea that humans were put on this earth with the sole purpose of procreation just doesn't work for me, mate. Sorry.

If that indeed was what God uncle intended - India and China would not just be growing in terms of no. of people. Those countries would be experiencing an expansion in terms of physical land as well (cultivable and residential). ;) (hey.. it's a valid point).

It's not like everyone is going to turn gay if it's legalised. Same argument. Just because smoking is legal - doesn't mean everyone has started smoking.

About the influence bit... Allow me to reiterate -

If people would stop making such a big deal about the whole homosexual bit, it would definitely loose it's Taboo label and thereby effectively lowering the CURIOUS factor about it. That would in turn take care of your problem - which is - What if someone is doing it just because they think it's HIP.

It's a simple straight enough approach. If no one makes a big deal about it, it seizes to be extraordinary. It seizes to be of any interest. It seizes to be a mystery or taboo..

About not understanding the way they feel. Well I have some friends who are homosexuals, bi-sexuals. Perhaps that's the reason why I find it easier to talk about it and understand them. It's really not a big deal. Not for me anyways. Like I said.. some people like fish, some like chicken.

If you don't make a big deal about it, you bring down the HO!! factor, I think that itself will reduce the instance of people picking it up just because they think it's cool or different or unique or hip or...

Agnel said...

Even God wanted his creations to exist(and procreate)(Noah's story ?). I just brought in God, since you believe in him.

I've heard elders tell me, "Live with what you have", infact that is one lesson which will talk about greed. Expanding land would mean Humans will just take it for granted. (just a crappy thought :D)

I agree with the taboo part. :D, it is just how our curious mind works(blame curious eve for that).

L o r d R a j said...

LOL@blame curious eve for that

Are we going to get into the original sin as well!?

Procreation... hmm now I am sure that given the current situation of the world.. Everyone would appreciate some control on the procreation bit. Don't you think so :D ;)

Besides - like I said - legalising same sex relationships doesn't mean that procreation is going to stop or there will be a ban on child birth or whatever.

It's not like - ' hey it's legal, let's all switch and see what the hell is this all about '

And I still strongly believe that Procreation is definitely NOT the sole purpose for us being here.

God uncle said 'Be fruitful and become many and fill the earth'. I am pretty pretty sure he didn't mean that literally.

Boy did we screw up big time in getting that message right.

That said - it really can't be that we are here just to procreate. What's the idea? God is running a genetic engineering lab!! I didn't think so either.

Cheers, mate.